MyDD :: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus.

Throwing Hillary Under the Bus.

by canadian gal, Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:07:16 PM EST

(Cross-posted at Kickin it With CG and Clintonistas for Obama).

When Hillary Clinton conceded several weeks ago I was sad. I truly wanted her to win the Democratic nomination and become the president in January 2009.

But....

It.Didn't.Happen.

Since that time we have seen the PUMA movement take hold. Which for those living under a rock, stands for Party Unity My Ass. I am not going to get into a diatribe about them because in some ways I understand what they are doing and somewhat how they are feeling.

- Disappointed that Hillary will not be the President in 2009? Okay.

- Don't agree with some of Obama's policies? Okay.

- Reviled at his campaign's tactics during the primary? Okay.

- Think Hillary would have been the better candidate? Okay.

- Dislike Obama? Okay.

But you know what? THE PRIMARY IS OVER.

And for those that are thinking of voting for McCain? Stop and think what you are doing -you are throwing Hillary under the bus. Everything she stands for has very little to do with the Republican party ideals and voting for them would be a slap in her face. Yes - a slap.

As my good pal Kysen wrote:

But, opting not to vote?
Voting only downticket?
Writing in Hillary?
Fine.
Whatever.
Seems a bit like holding one's breath to get one's way....but, at least it is not sullying Hillary's name.

So for the love of god - if you cannot vote for the Democratic nominee - people may not like your decision but will understand it. But DO NOT betray Hillary and everything she stands for by voting for McCain.

Tags: obama, clinton, democrats, PUMA (all tags)

Permalink :: 245 Comments :: Post a Comment

The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 21)

going out and ill be back in a while.

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:08:30 PM EST

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (1.83 / 6)

Why does Hillary get thrown under the bus for the reaction of those who would not vote for Obama?

I'll be brutally honest. She is not going to shed any tears over him not being president. This one is all Obama's to win or lose on his own.

But I like the new reverse psychology. :D

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:48:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (1.93 / 16)

Ah good, a mind-reader. Cuz Hillary's so fucking vindictive she'd be okay with Obama losing as that's worth enough to her to make up for all the hell that would put America through?

You have a very low opinion of Senator Clinton indeed. If she believes in her policy goals and Democratic values (and I fervently believe that she does) then she would be crushed were Obama to lose.

Any chance you might stop projecting your own trainwreck of an attitude on an honorable public servant?

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:51:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 4)

You don't need abusive language rants to discuss or debate me.

Now having said that- I don't have a low opinion of her. If you want to write a love story go ahead. I'm simply speaking politics.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:57:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 11)

If you consider that "abusive-language rants" might I suggest FreeRepublic or some such? I was, and remained, shocked that you or anyone at a Democratic forum would state something so jaded as that.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 3)

It's just politics and my opinion that she is not going to shed tears over it. Does not mean she will work against him. That's what you are assuming from my opinion.

Btw- Where you shocked/jaded when Michelle obama said she would have to think about supporting hillary , if hillary were to win the nomination?

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:06:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 5)

Ah, but the funny thing is that's not what she said......

She said she'd have to think about whether or not she'd "work for" her, not support her.

Was I bothered by what she actually said? A little bit. That being said, I don't necessarily expect the non-politician wife of a hypothetically-failed Presidential candidate to campaign for the victor.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:08:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 1)

Oh and yes, we you curse in your reply it generally is considered abusive. There is no need to get all excited and start using F'ing this and that with me.

Else I will ignore your replies.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 6)

I apologize for that. You said something I found profoundly stupid and I reacted accordingly. I will be more circumspect in the future.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, Reaper! (2.00 / 5)

We may not have always agreed before, but we obviously fully agree now. Hi5 for Hillary! I respect her too much to even imagine her betraying Barack & BETRAYING ALL OF US DEMOCRATS like that.

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 8)

Why does Hillary get thrown under the bus for the reaction of those who would not vote for Obama?

that's not what the diary said - it said she gets thrown under the bus if you vote for mccain.

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:56:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (none / 0)

ahh, I took it as vote for McCain = not a vote for Obama.

He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."

by roxfoxy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:02:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 2)

She will if women lose the right to choose.

by Drummond on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:40:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 3)

A McCain presidency would GREATLY upset her, even if she doesn't show it. That anti-peace, anti-family, anti-woman ASSHOLE represents everything that Hillary has fought to defeat in Washington. We can't let him get his hands on the Oval Office.

Please join us in opposing John McCain.

Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain

by psychodrew on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 1)

IF it is all his to win and lose on his own than why is she working so hard to help him?

ENOUGH!

by JDF on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (2.00 / 1)

It's throwing Clinton under the bus because it's a betrayal of Clinton. Clinton was not running on ego or self-gratification but because she believed in a set of principles and thought she would be best at advancing those. By not supporting Obama you are betraying those principles and basically betraying everything Clinton stands for.

by Philoguy on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, cg! (2.00 / 7)

Awesome diary! While I'm still sometimes saddened by the primary outcome, I refuse to dishonor Hillary by promoting John McBush over Barack Obama. Let's remember that Hillary loves this country & wants what's best for America... That's why she's urging us all to work as hard for Barack as we did for her!

And btw in full disclosure, I'm cg's co-blogger at http://clintonistasforobama.blogspot.com ! ;-)

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, cg! (2.00 / 4)

I wish someone would explain how the PUMA movement honors her. As far as I'm concerned, anything against Obama helps McCain and Hillary would not want him elected because she lost. She is so much bigger than that.

Oh yes. Full disclosure. I'm cg's and atdleft's co-blogger.

Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain

by psychodrew on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:03:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, cg! (2.00 / 4)

We know who the PUMA movement helps...

John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.

by ihaveseenenough on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:07:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, cg! (2.00 / 2)

See also:

PUMAs should know who they're really supporting. Hint: it's not Hillary!

Stop the racism. Fight the smears.

by CrazyDrumGuy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 08:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, cg! (none / 0)

Hey, thanks for the image. Maybe I need to go there and read what they have to say.

Thanks again for posting that!!

by wblynch on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:44:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

24 month period (2.00 / 1)

In politics, time is divided into 24 month segments.

For 19 of the 24 months you may:
gouge
hit
punch
scratch
kick
scream

For 5 of the 24 months you must play nice.

We are in that 5 month period right now.

by smoker1 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 06:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The primary is over - vote Democratic. (none / 0)

I don't understand how a diary that gives no real reason to vote for Obama, is going to do much to convince people to vote for Obama.

It is not a slap in the face of any candidate to exercise our right to vote as we choose. It's democracy. We have the right to weigh the issues and the candidates and decide as we see fit. It's not throwing anyone anywhere, no matter what you say. You're wrong.

Obama hasn't been formally nominated yet so I will see what happens.

by daria g on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 12:57:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (2.00 / 6)

I agree with you entirely.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:11:03 PM EST

Was PUMA in the news again? (2.00 / 2)

What inspires these diaries? Did you see PUMA mentioned on some blog?

by catfish2 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:15:20 PM EST

lots of flame... (2.00 / 6)

wars the last few days. seeing this made me realize that everything that hillary has worked for her whole life was going to go down the shitter.

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:37:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great reply CG... (none / 0)

Even though catfish was posing a snarky, rhetorical question that didn't deserve a thoughtful response.

Now he will run off to his PUMA sites to make fun of mydd-ers. He tells them their movement must be working because we're so obsessed with them--even though they're the ones trolling our site.

I read up on the latest because they make me nervous. As long as their plot only consists of annoying superdelegates and silly acts of civil disobedience, I'm not too worried. But the pitch of the hysteria, paranoia and occasionally violent delusions makes me feel like they're harboring some potentially dangerous individuals.

by Tenafly Viper on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why not add (1.33 / 12)

-Time for lock step? Okay.

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:16:10 PM EST

Re: Why not add (2.00 / 7)

But, opting not to vote?
Voting only downticket?
Writing in Hillary?
Fine.
Whatever.
Seems a bit like holding one's breath to get one's way....but, at least it is not sullying Hillary's name.

Plenty of options the diarist mentioned, doesn't seem lockstep to me, but then again, I can actually read.

by Dog Chains on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not holding my breath (none / 0)

I expect Obama to win.

I'm concerned that he will be a one-term democratic president.

Nothing to worry about...right?

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:37:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

STOP IT!! (2.00 / 7)

Really, Coldblue, stop trolling in this diary. Don't mock all of us who agree with Hillary & are standing with her in supporting Barack. If you don't like being called out here, may I suggest you move to a "PUMA" site.

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:04:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't like dissent? (1.55 / 9)

atdleft, you can't bury your head.

I know that don't like to hear it, but sometimes you need to hear 'what you need to know' as our presumptive nominee likes to say.

by Coldblue on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:13:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

DFTT!! (2.00 / 3)

Don't feed this troll, everyone. I'm not responding any more, and neither should anyone else. These "PUMAs" are only invading to cause division & wreak havoc on our MyDD community. The only way for us to get our community back is to ignore the trolls and let them run back to their Freeper sites.

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:43:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not holding my breath (none / 0)

"I'm concerned that he will be a one-term democratic president."

And I'm guessing you're worried for the opposite: that he'll be a two-term democratic president, with a presidency successful enough that even his vice-president will get the presidency in 2016, and thus prove all you people mere defeatist cynics.

What are you gonna say if such happens? That you were supporting Obama all along?

by Aris Katsaris2 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:57:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not holding my breath (none / 0)

I don't think there is a hope in hell of Obama winning. You all have short memories. Gore and Kerry lost - remember? Running against far right ding-dong Bush? They were smeared by the GOP 527 groups and the media. When you truly think of all the things they can smear Obama with - Wright, Rezko, Ayers, the house deal, the Chicago machine, his patriotism, etc. - it will be a very nasty fall. After that, there won't be any independents going anywhere near him. Add to that, 46% of Hillary supporters won't vote for him (for good reason). 46% of 18 million? 8,280,000 people Democrats.
So good luck.

by Marjoriest on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 02:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not holding my breath (none / 0)

"I don't think there is a hope in hell of Obama winning. "

LOL! Given how polls and estimates are currently going, I think that mocking laughter should be our only response to such comments.

by Aris Katsaris2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 03:51:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not holding my breath (none / 0)

Just wait. You'll see.

by Marjoriest on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:14:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not holding my breath (none / 0)

Thank you for useless comment, oh great prophet of the gods.

I've been "seeing" all along. It's you who are closing your eyes and using prophecies of doom instead of facts.

by Aris Katsaris2 on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:47:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL! (2.00 / 8)

Yeah, cause when I think "lockstep" I think "canadian gal".

If you're going to insult someone, is it too much to ask that the insults make sense? I mean, really now.

Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?

by BrighidG on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah (2.00 / 1)

My mistake

Positions seem to be flexible these days.

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:44:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

*eyeroll* (2.00 / 3)

No, really, that's all I have because there's nothing more to say to that comment but eyeroll.

Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?

by BrighidG on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wouldn't expect more n/t (1.33 / 3)

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why not add (2.00 / 1)

No reason to downrate this.

by Montague on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (2.00 / 9)

Rec'd!

Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008

by zcflint05 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:17:24 PM EST

I think we can all agree that... (1.66 / 6)

...it's a "free" country and "PUMA" has a right to voice their opinion whether or not the majority of Democrats agree with it or not.

by soyousay on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:18:30 PM EST

Re: I think we can all agree that... (2.00 / 9)

As does the diarist, so what is your point?

by Dog Chains on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think we can all agree that... (none / 0)

That is my point :D Freedom is great isn't it?

by soyousay on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:02:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think we can all agree that... (2.00 / 1)

Yeah it is, hopefully some people can try to be responsible and civil with it?

by Dog Chains on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:13:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think we can all agree that... (2.00 / 1)

IMO, I'm responsible because I don't call people trolls or any other name when I disagree with them.

by soyousay on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:30:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Free speech isn't a one way street (2.00 / 3)

Though this being a site for DEMOCRATS then yes, people will promote DEMOCRATS over non-Democrats and most definitely over Republicans. And those who run contrary will not get a warm welcome just like a Yankees fan who wants to post on a Red Sox board and tell them everyone there how the Boston team sucks, will not be appreciated.

Insane, I know.

Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?

by BrighidG on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:34:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (2.00 / 4)

Though this being a site for DEMOCRATS then yes, people will promote DEMOCRATS

I didn't see any love for Hillary during the primary on this site; as a matter of fact, this site was full of hatred for Hillary and still is.

by soyousay on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:05:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (2.00 / 2)

If you want a real mindblower, consider this!

MyDD was one of the most pro-Hillary sites.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:06:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (2.00 / 2)

IMO, that's pathetic.

by soyousay on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:20:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (2.00 / 1)

It was, until the orange swamp sent paid trolls over here - and soon it was a mirror image of DK. It isn't much better now.

by Marjoriest on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 03:00:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (none / 0)

Paid trolls, eh?

Evidence or retract.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:45:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (none / 0)

Maybe there are people as rude as those from DK were. I am being polite in saying they were rude for pay - I can't imagine anyone being that rude otherwise. If you didn't adore Obama you were harassed, TR'd and your opinions were never valid. Instead of bringing people to him - these fans brought hate and nastiness. That anyone would be that nasty without being paid is really hard to believe.

by Marjoriest on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good point. (2.00 / 4)

but mostly those are trolls.

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:07:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: good point. (2.00 / 3)

Really, i was scared to come here as an "Obamabot" the same with Kos, only the other way, some of those people took it too far too often. It'd be nice if we could learn to at least engage in more discourse then "he's a liar because he said this yesterday, and he clarified today" or "She's the wicked witch of the west because she supports NAFTA"

by Dog Chains on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:15:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (2.00 / 6)

I didn't see any love for Hillary during the primary on this site

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. There were (and still are) a substantial number of Hillary supporters on this site. Jerome especially was a giant Hillary supporter. So, no. Your argument doesn't hold water.

by bottl4 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:06:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (2.00 / 1)

ROFL!
were you under a rock during the primaries? This site along with talkleft was the biggest Hillary site right to the end of the primaries. Idiot.

by Fistjab on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Free speech isn't a one way street (2.00 / 2)

I didn't see any love for Hillary during the primary on this site; as a matter of fact, this site was full of hatred for Hillary and still is.

HOLY CRAP!

Really? You missed the 4 or 5 recced diaries DAILY supporting Clinton, Jerome's blatant love for Hillary, and the behind the scenes crackdown on Obama supporters?

I cannot believe that you honestly believe what you wrote there. You are either incredibly dishonest or an idiot. I will go with dishonest, as it is the more likely of the two.

If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.

by Darknesse on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:45:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think we can all agree that... (none / 0)

Sure, Republic's have used their freedom of speech to lie and conive the American public into transfering the wealth and power into the hands of the few.

Puma's have the consitutional right to act like egotistical cry-babies, and help them?

Free country, after all.

"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"

by WashStateBlue on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Highly recommended! (2.00 / 12)

I'm sick of that faux "movement". You're far more tolerant of it than I.

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.

by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:18:38 PM EST

Your sig (1.50 / 8)

needs an update, don't you think?

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hm, no I don't think so, actually. (2.00 / 15)

But please feel free to manufacture as much controversy as humanly possible.

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.

by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it the (2.00 / 2)

controversy or the ideology that most concerns you?

I'm curious.

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:32:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's the need to (2.00 / 5)

create a controversy -- I find that annoying. I also find it annoying that people would come to MyDD for the sole purpose of bashing the nominee (and yeah, there's nothing we can do about it). Seems a bit off.

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.

by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're avoiding (2.00 / 1)

the question.

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're avoiding (2.00 / 2)

Is it the (none / 0)

controversy or the ideology that most concerns you?

It's the need to (2.00 / 2)

create a controversy

So I suppose "controversy" would be my answer. However, I disagree that Obama has flip-flopped on abortion, which is presumably what you're complaining about.

Is it the controversy or the ideology of a brand new war with Iran begun by McShrub which appeals to you?

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.

by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:49:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary supported mental health (2.00 / 3)

but you knew that, right? A mothers mental health would be on the table. But now its OBAMA! and his belief that mental health of the mother is not critical. You are disingenuous.

by Coldblue on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:02:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary supported mental health (1.60 / 10)

Mental distress is not the same thing as mental illness. If you don't understand the distinction I would suggest you educate yourself before you make a further fool of yourself.

If you already do know the difference then you're being dishonest.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:04:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary supported mental health (1.71 / 7)

You keep saying that, but you don't answer the part about why he emphasized the Physical illness part of his statement, if he was just making a distinction between mental distress and mental illness. With his statement about mental distress and follow up about it having to be a PHYSICAL illness, he was dismissing any kind of mental involvement.

by Scotch on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:20:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary supported mental health (2.00 / 1)

No, he was not. You are misconstruing the remarks. You are free to interpret them as you will, but if it were obviously his intent then nearly everybody would have read it that way.

If I had to parse the words, I would suggest that the fact he was answering a question off the cuff and not making a prepared statement is important. In that vein, mental health is, IMO, a form of physical health. It has physical manifestations.

Given the incredible sensitivity of the issue I can forgive anyone who honestly misunderstood what he said, but the fact that he's clarified the remarks (and that clarification was wholly consistent with what was originally said), I would take him at his word.

Obviously not everybody else would.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:25:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary supported mental health (2.00 / 2)

Where did you see that he clarified it? I cannot find anything on google.

by Scotch on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:46:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary supported mental health (2.00 / 1)

Yes, I read it earlier. Hang on.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/pol itics/blog/2008/07/obama_backs_late_abor tions_on.html

Please read the whole thing, and go into it with as open a mind as you can.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:27:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary supported mental health (2.00 / 3)

I find a serious problem with a candidate who must CONTINUALLY explain what he said. It looks like pandering and backtracking, and really, that's what it is.

All politicians do some pandering. A little pandering, I can live with. Obama's going overboard with it, and one reason is that he doesn't have sufficiently clarified positions. I don't mean un-nuanced positions; I mean unclarified positions. A position can have both clarity and nuance.

If Obama were about more than simply getting himself into the White House, then surely he would not make so many bloopers while speaking off the cuff. He is just plain inexperienced. He also hasn't thought deeply enough about most issues. That's why he is continually getting caught off-guard. You would think the primary had helped him, but apparently not. That's why his speeches are always better than his debate performances. (Hillary, I would argue, is the opposite - not a great speech-giver, but great in answering questions in depth.)

Mental and physical health are both subsets of health, but neither is a subset of the other, from a medical standpoint. If he had said "medical" rather than "physical," then THAT would have encompassed both mental and physical. He clearly separated the two, and that tells me he doesn't understand the subject well enough.

by Montague on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:03:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reading comprehension, people! (none / 0)

What are you talking about? His spokeswoman could not have been clearer: "Mental distress is not an illness. He absolutely believes and has always said there has to be a health exception for serious physical and mental illness." For that matter, Obama himself was quite clear: "...having a health exception can be defined rigorously. It can be defined through physical health. It can be defined by serious clinical mental-health diseases."

Obama very clearly drew a distinction between mental illness (which would be grounds for an exception) and mere mental distress (which includes anxiety and confusion and "feeling blue").

by jere7my on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:52:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reading comprehension, people! (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, and my reading of what he said is worth a zero. Keep it up.

by Scotch on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:12:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Worth a zero"? (none / 0)

I haven't rated you in this thread, or at all, one way or the other. Take a look at my ratings page:

http://mydd.com/user/jere7my/ratings

by jere7my on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Reading comprehension, people! (none / 0)

Obama very clearly drew a distinction telling me he wouldn't stand up for a woman's right to choose, without opening the door to all these conditions and qualifications. I do not care for him commenting on mental health distinctions so carelessly like that. "Feeling blue"? What the heck does he know? Not enough to have really done his homework on this issue, that's for sure.

There is suddenly a lot of concern for women's rights, but only insofar as they can be used to push women voters into doing as we're told. Well, forget that. A right is a right.

by daria g on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:05:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Check again (none / 0)

He was asked about third-trimester abortions. He said that he was in favor of exemptions when the health of the mother -- and he explicitly included mental health in his clarification -- was an issue. (This is the baseline Democratic position, shared by Hillary Clinton.) He said he was not in favor of exemptions for mere "mental distress" -- anxiety, etc. This is a no-brainer, since nobody thinks mere "mental distress" (as opposed to mental illness) should be enough to get a third-trimester abortion, but he was responding to a smear email that claimed that he and other Democrats favor third-trimester abortions if the mother is "feeling blue". That was the context of him bringing up "mental distress" -- he was responding to a smear, and the first line of his response enjoined us to "not believe the emails."

Obama's position is exactly the same as Senator Clinton's, who also supports a ban on third-term abortions provided exemptions for the health of the mother exist. This is how the courts interpret abortion rights right now (as Obama pointed out).

by jere7my on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 10:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Read what I wrote (1.50 / 2)

Mental health

There is a distinction. Ask Andrea Yates.

Google it if you don't know.

Fool.

by Coldblue on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:21:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read what I wrote (2.00 / 1)

Yes, I know who that person is.

Care to explain where Senator Obama clearly stated that the "mental health" of women is irrelevant?

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:25:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Read what I wrote (none / 0)

Fool is harsh.

Its like the difference between having situational depression and having schizophrenia.

Or say, even the difference between a common anxiety disorder and schizophrenia.

To me, I would say any mental illness that renders the person incapable of making decisions or incapable of functioning independently should allow a person or their guardian to make such a decision regarding late-term abortion.

You also have to consider if the person is severely retarted or autistic, who really might not be able to understand everything that's going on.

by MKyleM on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:28:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Googled (none / 0)

My only point is that in an area like partial-birth abortion having a mental, having a health exception can be defined rigorously. It can be defined through physical health, It can be defined by serious clinical mental-health diseases. It is not just a matter of feeling blue. I don't think that's how pro-choice folks have interpreted it. I don't think that's how the courts have interpreted it and I think that's important to emphasize and understand."

by skohayes on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:09:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with Reaper0Bot0. (2.00 / 4)

Now then, did you have a response to my question?

Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.

by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:08:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (1.50 / 14)

You forgot--

The DNC is a failure and betrayed it's members. Okay?

by Scotch on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:21:35 PM EST

Shush (1.25 / 12)

they don't care. HE is our nominee so fall in or be crucified.

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Shush (2.00 / 6)

Get over yourself. You're not Jesus.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Neither is Obama (1.33 / 9)

but you would think he is based upon the blind trust that he has gathered from people like you.

by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Neither is Obama (2.00 / 8)

It is not blind, and he's not my messiah.

I am neither a starry-eyed child, nor an idiot. I have made a rational decision (a series of them, actually) and I would appreciate it greatly if you would accord me the respect a rational adult is due.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:52:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (1.71 / 7)

Hide rated for the fact that this is a Democratic site, such non backed up and derogatory language in reference to our party should not be tolerated without points of reference.

by Dog Chains on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:24:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (1.23 / 13)

It's an opinion, jerk. Opinions are required to come with links. You sure are heavy on using zeroes tonight. Perhaps you ought to cool down, and not let politics upset you so much. Karma.

by Scotch on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (2.00 / 2)

I'm more heavy handed with the 1 ratings too, you see, I enjoy this site, I enjoy reading topical points regarding things going on in the world. People like you who come in to stir up trouble, denigrate others without making an argument, solely in order to make yourself feel more important and ruin a perfectly good resource for Democrats to exchange ideas disgust me to no end, and I pray some day jerome gets over his bitterness and starts taking notice that you people need to be removed as you add nothing to the community or to the diaries you infect. And if you read the terms of use, that is the EXACT justification for 1 or 0 ratings and EVERY one I have given tonight has fit into that mold. So either try to add something worthwhile, or take your tin foil hat and find a bridge to sleep under.

by Dog Chains on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:43:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (1.83 / 6)

Who is "you people". You're rather a newby here, so I wouldn't start categorizing until you read a little more, if I were you. I expressed an opinion and apparently you are intolerant of those, but would rather police the site as you see fit, regardless of whether or not you know who or what you are talking about. God forbid that anyone should say a word about the party committee that has time and again throughout this election disappointed many democrats and time after time made mistakes throughout. You may not want to face the idea that the party committee did poorly this time around, but the word is already out.

by Scotch on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:51:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (1.66 / 3)

now there is something well worthwhile, see, you can make a point without the tin foil hat and blanket denunciation of a party some of us hold dear. But such statements as "the entire committtee are failures" and "it disappointed it's member" are not only silly, but false and should be called out. And your right, I just started coming here because unfortunately, it was a Hillary haven for too long, where even defending Barack was not to be tolerated, similar to the polar opposite of Kos. I wonder what candidates like Scott Kleeb think when they post diaries here that get overlooked because the rec list is filled with diaries regarding trolls/PUMA/There party sucking? now your 3rd sentence is actually accurate and pretty moderate and valid, try that more and maybe people will take heed.

by Dog Chains on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (2.00 / 2)

Pardon me if I didn't reach your level of perfection in wording.

by Scotch on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:15:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (none / 0)

no problem, pardon me if I'm sensitive to blanket insults of my party without background, it seems to be some people's habit here:)

by Dog Chains on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:19:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Suppressing Free Speech is NOT DEMOCRATIC (none / 0)

Scotch expressed what a lot of disgruntled Democrats feel and why many have abandoned the Party.

by Rome890 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 03:41:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

oh.... (2.00 / 8)

i also forgot:

The Media was a Sexist Fail. Okay.

But still that doesn't change the message in the diary.

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:32:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Excellent! (2.00 / 11)

canadian gal can also put together a Great Rant! :)

Kudos!

Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog

by kevin22262 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:31:18 PM EST

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (2.00 / 11)

But you know what? THE PRIMARY IS OVER.

I wish I could scream this at the top of a mountain or something. Why does PUMA still think Hill has a shot at this thing- annoying. I dont get how they just dont get it.

REC'D! !!!

[denial is dangerous]

lemon716, mydd's little lemon drop;

by alyssa chaos on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:40:40 PM EST

yes. (2.00 / 9)

and there are still trolls here either pretending or are obama supporters doing the same thing. A-NNOYING

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:44:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes. (2.00 / 7)

hell yes.[a couple of names come to mind;] they like to stir shit up just to see the feathers fly.

I used to think it was kinda funny, but I clearly see that its not funny anymore- [oh my.i think im growing up.haaha]

lemon716, mydd's little lemon drop;

by alyssa chaos on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (2.00 / 7)

Thank you for writing this Canadian Gal.

To tell you the truth this "Obamabot" isn't too thrilled with Obama right now either. I don't think withholding my vote will help things though.

I signed up on the anti-FISA group on the Obama website and will continue to speak up when I disagree with him. I never saw electing a Democratic president as what it would take to "win" politically speaking. It is a huge first step though. I realized that even my own party would have to be pushed into doing what's right years ago.

January is when Hillary and John Edwards will be able to really show what they're made of. I hope that they both sincerely believed in their campaign promises and vocally work to keep Obama honest. If she actively works to achieve the progressive agenda she campaigned on I will gladly support Hillary in 2016.

No McCain in '08

by Renie on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:46:10 PM EST

alas.... (2.00 / 4)

i believe HRC and JE at this time WOULD NEVER go against what BO does. this would deal a house divided. not only for appearances but for well political reasons.

nope all issues between now and nov will be heeded by the nominee.

sigh.

"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum

by canadian gal on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:25:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Another option (2.00 / 1)

How about voting for a real progressive woman for president?

Someone who:
- voted against the Patriot Act
Consistently voted against war funding, and voted against the Iraq war resolution

has more experience than Obama (12 years in congress, incl. foreign relations comm.)
Voted against DOMA and supports gay marriage
Introduced articles of impeachment against Bush, Cheney & Rice
opposes the death penalty
supports single payer universal healthcare
opposes FISA
supports the DC handgun ban

Cynthia McKinney, Green Party Candidate for president.

Vote for a true progressive in November: Cynthia McKinney (GRN) for President!

by brooklyngreenie on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:51:07 PM EST

Re: Another option (2.00 / 3)

Also, punched a cop!

by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:53:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry... (2.00 / 4)

While I still have respect for McKinney, I can't support her now. She's shooting us in the foot now by working AGAINST the best chance we have to move the progressive agenda forward. Any vote against Obama now is basically support for the McBush Agenda.

No way, no how, no McCain! :-)

by atdleft on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:53:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another option (2.00 / 5)

One of two people will be our next president. I don't vote for folks who have no chance whatsoever. I vote for the one who is not a Republican.

And I am going to work hard and will donate some more for Barack Obama.

No candidate is perfect.

No person is perfect.

But one of these candidates is clearly superior - and it's not the one who wants the war to go on and on and who thinks the problem with the Vietnam war is that it ended too soon.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:10:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another option (2.00 / 4)

Sounds like a true progressive. Too bad she doesn't have any chance to win. Hopefully, people learned a lesson from Nader's unsuccessful run.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:14:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another option (2.00 / 3)

Cynthia McKinney is an absolute disgrace to the GA Dem. Party and the national party.

Everytime I hear about a lunatic politician I think of her and say a little prayer of thanks that she was defeated in a primary.

Although she stood for all those things you noted, she does not act professional. Every cycle upon qualifying, she'd show up with her parade of crazy people at the capital. Stupid.

After years of this and a very long series of awkward moments and bad decisions, she slugs a police officer on Capital Hill.

My toes curl everytime her 'bid' for the presidency comes up. She is trying to be a spoiler. She's behaving as if she's a little child, pissed off, and taking her toys home.

Damaged goods.

by MKyleM on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:21:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another option (none / 0)

yeas - I suppose she would be seen as a disgrace to the GA Dem party that colluded with the Republicans is her district to cross over in the primary to defeat her.

If that's the Dem party you claim to represent, I want nothing to do with it.

Vote for a true progressive in November: Cynthia McKinney (GRN) for President!

by brooklyngreenie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:48:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another option (2.00 / 1)

collusion? Are you serious?? Really? Seriously?

You don't think the Republicans wanted her to win the primary so that she could go down in flames in the general? There is no way, no how the GOP involved themselves in the primary - and, if anything, they supported her. She lost because her own party rejected her.

Her district has a lot of African Americans and, thus, a strong Dem district. Its hard enough challenging Republicans throughout the state of GA, so we don't need someone like her shooting us in our collective foot and losing one of the few sure seats we have. 9/11 conspiracy theories and slugging police officers may not be deal killers in Brooklyn, but they are here.

Be careful. I'm not really saying this about you, but the intellectual arrogance of northeastern liberals has been a great liability to the Dems thruout the south. Our job of electing Dems here is an enormous challenge; so, people like Cynthia McKinney make our blood boil.

by MKyleM on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another option (1.33 / 3)

Yeah, I'm deciding between McKinney and McCain. I'll figure out who to vote for between now and November.

by bsavage on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (2.00 / 5)

These people are throwing themselves, their children, and their children's children under the bus. But hey, if it's only the thought of Sen. Clinton that will motivate them, then so be it.

by rfahey22 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:08:47 AM EST

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (2.00 / 5)

Doing any of those things the author's pal suggested would, in fact, be a slap in Hillary's face.

This was never about Hillary, even if you thought she'd be the best candidate (as I did). This was about the things for which she stood.

Voting for Obama is the only way to honor those commitments, to both our ideals and our beloved warrior who will continue to bravely fight for them.

by MKyleM on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:09:03 AM EST

Re: Throwing Hillary Under the Bus. (1.50 / 4)

ffs. how many of these diaries must we have.

im tired of having to be so careful not to offend all these former Hillary supporters. everyone having to word things just right.

sorry, but if you want to be a bunch of babies and cry about your candidate losing who the hell cares. this is a democratic blog (and not a huge one) and nothing said here is going to effect the outcome o