Oh, get over yourselves.

This is nothing but a blathering rant, but then hey, so are half the diaries here now.  The place is crawling with Republican trollers and their sock puppets, who I suspect account for half the diaries now and three-quarters of the comments.  
So it's hard to sort out the smoke and horsecrap from the genuine concerns, but even the genuine concerns are off the rails.  

To start, thank God Obama is "drifting towards the center" because, um, that's where the majority of voters are.  I for one want to see the guy elected, even if that means he doesn't meet my standards of ideological purity.  Some might call this behavior "pandering" or "flip-flipping", especially if they are most interested in seeing another four years of Republican rule.  

Yet there are still must be authentic hand wringing on the far Left (I know because CNN told me so) and oh how I wish the Left could wake the hell up.  You don't win elections on an ideologically pure far Left agenda, instead you tend to go down in flames.  Ask George McGovern.

The whole notion of "flip-flopping" is absurd, unless of course you are John Kerry running against a mindless idealoge bully who prides himself on how much he remains uneffected by facts and public opinion.  Myself?  I tend to trust a person MORE who tempers their arguments and is willing to compromise to win consensus -- I kind of like the idea of a president who works hard to best represent and serve ALL Americans.  I kinda like the image of a candidate who after travelling the country from one end to the other, and listening to thousands of regular folks in places he's never been or well imagined, sits down and says to himself "I think the majority of Americans want to see this" and then shifts his positions.  Crazy talk, I know.

Take "patriotism" for example and the dreaded flag pin.  Obama starts out, alot like me, and says "Hey, you don't have to wear a pin to prove you love this country."  but then, over time, he meets enough people who think the GD pin means something because it means something to them.  So, does he continue to pound the table on it to prove he's right?  Or does he just concede the dumb issue and put on the stupid pin because it obviously means a great deal to Gracey in Omaha.  See?  He GETS IT.  He gets the part where certain cultural expectations mean alot to people and he RESPECTS THEM for that.  

Now onto FISA.  Oh my freaking lord.  I want to make sure I have this right so please, correct me if I'm wrong and anyone is stil reading this --
You want a Democratic candidate for president to FILIBUSTER, against the will of his own party, during an election year, against the "Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act".  Got it.  Filibuster.  As in talk for hours to hold it up from passage.  Until what -- he collapses on the Senate floor in a dead faint or millions of letters from concerned Americans who agree with him are dragged in by sweating pages?  
Can you even imagine the hay the GOP would make out of this?  The endless supply of out of context sound bites a filibuster would provide them?  You cannot possibly be that politically niave.

Abortion.  Oh pardon Obama for taking the position of the majority of Americans again.  How dare he pander to the majority when he is supposed to be on the leash of the Left.  Faith-based initiatives -- how dare he see religion as more than zealotry and rightwing crazy talk and reach out to those Americans who do their best volunteering through their church.  

Gun control.  Congrats to Obama on effectively sidestepping a well planted Republican landmine.  So I guess we won't be subjected to hours of "Obama wants guns only in the hands of criminals".  I want to kiss his feet for that alone.  

OMG!  He's acting like a politician?  Gee, ya think?  But dare I point out, not a "regular politician" or we'd be ass deep in meaningless sound bites and fear-mongering strawmen by now.  

OMG!  He "threw (fill in the blank) under the bus"?  Guess what.  It's an election year and any road to the Whitehouse is paved with the carcasses of folks who said the wrong thing.  A reminder -- he's not LITERALLY throwing people under moving bus tires, FYI.  He's "distancing himself" from controversial and alienating commentary. No one dies, no one is hung in effigy, they only lose the approval of the candidate, oh my.

How dare Obama "abandon" the Left in the attempt to actually unite the majority around commonly shared beliefs?  Isn't that our only damn hope afterall?  To get passed divisions and move off the polarizing of every issue to some fertile common ground?  I'm truly sorry that "compromise" is a dirty word to so many, that the country isn't ready for some purist who passes every litmus test of the Left.  

But perhaps what the country needs, what the majority of Americans need, in these so desperate and scary times is not another politician attempting to yank the country one way or the other -- the first coming of the Anti-Bush -- but a leader who can hear, see, respect and is willing to get to know ALL OF US -- someone genuinely determined to serve, not some slate of "progressive ideals" but the collective will of the American people.  



Display:


Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 4)

ah..yep


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:09:31 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 10)

He said one thing to win the nomination and is now saying something utterly different to win the presidency.  That's not moving to the right, that's pandering to the right.  At a time when a good 30% of democrats have yet to commit to supporting his presidency.  
Pander to the Democrats; he'll win (it's a Dem year, in case you haven't heard).
Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:17:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"utterly different"? (2.00 / 2)

Really?  got an example?

Faith base -- I remember being mezmerized by an Obama speech on faith and politics a good year before he declared.

Iraq -- I remember cringing when he first said alomst a year ago he'd start pulling troops on Day One because I knew the danger to the troops in that position.  thank God he tempered on that one -- thank you again, Hillary Clinton/

FISA -- well, you sorta got me there, but then, I see his position and his reasoning

Abortion -- splitting hairs over an undefined term on an issue the president doesn't define -- he can only appoint others to define it for all of us.  

What esle you got?


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:22:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "utterly different"? (1.27 / 11)

You tell me. What does he really believe? What are his values? What has he ever done to show us what he believes? His word doesn't seem to mean much, he has done little to prove his values. He seems to be somewhat anti-women, his stand on abortion is wobbling, his religion is weird, he isn't a dedicated worker (see the sub-commitee) except to get elected. Do you believe what he says about Iraq? Do you think he has a clue what he is going to do? He said he was bored by the actual job of being a senator. Is he a Democratic Bush? A shallow thinker?
So please tell me what you expect from him. Is he suddenly going to become this capable hard-working person? If so, when?

by Marjoriest on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:38:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "utterly different"? (2.00 / 3)

He has a voting record and has many statements on his stances on different issues available in both written form, as in his books and policy statements, and in spoken form in his speeches. The idea that he has changed his position in any substantial way on more than one or two issues is pure nonsense. Where you get the idea his is anti-women bewilders me. Do you believe that because he had the gall to run against a woman? His stand on abortion has not changed at all. His religion is a straight-forward version of Christianity. He is certainly a dedicated worker. You don't make it into Harvard and graduate with high honors without working your tail off all the time you are there. The sub-committee knock is also nonsense. This sub-committee has no say in what is happening. That is handled in a full committee that deals with NATO. Would you prefer he held meetings just to look busy? I see no reason to doubt what he says about Iraq. His stance is the same as it was when he started his campaign - bring the troops home as soon as possible. Yes, I think he has a clue what he is going to do. Only someone who has never read anything he has written or not paid attention to any of his speeches could possibly think he is anything like Bush or that he is a shallow thinker.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "utterly different"? (2.00 / 3)

I called Obama alot of things during the primary and "shallow thinker" sure wasn't one of them!  If anything, the guy is most nuanced and complex thinker I've seen run in thirty years, not counting Hillary Clinton.

Anti-woman?  OMG, are we still trolling with that chum?  Seriously, wow.  No one in their right mind is still pounding that kettle.  

Hard working.  Well, I'm somebody who happens to think organizing in the inner city is pretty hard damn work, but then I'm biased.  What's not up for debate is it's a decent day's work for absolutely shit money, FYI.

His religion isn't exactly "weird" -- I believe it's Christianity, ever heard of it?  

As for Iraq, well, I think he does have a clue -- at least as compared to just about anyone posting on a blog who isn't sitting in a think tank or general's office.  I'm glad to hear he intends to actually LISTEN to the military on what needs to happen -- that would be one big GD break from a 15 year tradition.  (Clinton didn't listen to the military either)

One thing I stand on -- he sure doesn't sound stupid, especially if the yardstick for stupid is still GW Chimpcracker.  He is still the standard, right?  Hell, that guy even makes McCain look smart.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "utterly different"? (1.00 / 9)

Lordy, Lordy! Obama has no depth of knowledge on any of the issues - anyone listening to him would know that. Hillary knew everything about all the issues and made him seem a fool on many occasions.
Yes. I guess the women he offended are still pounding that kettle. Sweetie, my phone is vibrating in my pocket.... brush off the shoulder, scrape off the shoe. Nothing sexist in that.....
So you would have spent 20 years in Wright's church. Christianity? Love your neighbour? GD America? It's a horror.
Haven't you read about his work getting contracts for companies who got millions to handle slums where people lived in dreadful conditions? Campaign contributions. Community organizing.
Good luck with this loser.
by Marjoriest on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:56:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We'll take our chances (1.80 / 5)

with him.  You can take your chances with No KKKwarter and their ilk.


by JJE on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:18:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So, answer me this, if you don't mind (2.00 / 12)

and I ask in all sincerity,

What the hell are you doing here?  What is your rationale for posting comments on a site full of progressive Democrats, the vast majority of whom are dedicated to seeing a Democrat in the Whitehouse.

Is your hope to somehow enlighten the rest of us?  To somehow convince us to pick up our pitchforks and storm the convention?  Is the hope to somehow rattle  enough of us to demand a different standard bearer?

And then, if that were possible, to what end?  To see the presumptive nominee, for the first time in recent history, be somehow tossed out the door of the convention like a dog who pissed on the rug to nominate someone else, and somehow recover from that and win in November?

Or, is the idea here to drive folks not to vote, not to work, not to donate, not to give a damn -- to undermine their confidence in the presumptive nominee to somehow what?  Vote for an asshat like Nader?  Stay home and pout to teach the party a lesson?  

OR, is the idea here to elect John McCain to prove some point -- a guy who wants to "bomb bomb Iran" who calls his wife a "c^nt" in public, who can't use a computer or do a simple Google search, who ate his fucking birthday cake out of Bush's hand while folks were dying on roof tops in New Orleans, who chuckled at the question "how do we beat the bitch?"  THAT John McCain?

Seriously, no attack intended, just what the hell is your purpose in this?  Is it just to vent?  Is the idea to be able to come back in four months or four years and see how right you were?  Are you genuinely that angry or do you just like the thought of making others angry.

Because here's the deal, Pumpkin.  This is a progressive site with a Democratic agenda.  Tops on that list of things to do would be electing Obama in the fall.  Now, we can do that while exchanging thoughts and words on this wonderful site, or we can do that without the comraderie of a progressive blog, because it's been infested with nutjobs, Young Republicans and folks who's personal peeves are apparently more important than the future of the country. (See "bomb bomb Iran" etal above)

So...what is it?  What's the freaking point?


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, answer me this, if you don't mind (2.00 / 3)

Slumming from Larry Johnson's hate site.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Holy crap, EXCELLENT rant!!! n/t (none / 0)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, answer me this, if you don't mind (2.00 / 2)

ROTFLMAO

Dang grassroots, is there anything left of that poor deluded creature for C.S.I. to analyze?

Nicely done. Mojo and Recced!


TANSTAAFL
by Terminus on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 12:12:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A site full of progressive democrats? By pleading (1.66 / 3)

Obama's case for his 180 degree turn to the right, does not make you a progressive - his new nuanced/conservative policies do not represent progressive values! This is an echo chamber and an apologist's site for your pedantic candidate!

You should be screaming from the rafter, in indignation, at your candidate for taking your vote for granted! He lied, period, to get your vote and now that he knows you've got nowhere to go, you stubbornly continue to defend him in order to excuse your stupidity/naivety, pick your adjective, for believing that he was a change agent when in fact he was never such a person! You've all been suckered in.

I'm having such a good time reading your poor excuses as to why you should still support him when he's turned out to be the exact opposite to what you espoused him be! He's just a cheap politician like all the others... Welcome to democratic politics! Told you all along that he would do it,but was poo pooed at the time!


by suzieg on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 03:30:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A site full of progressive democrats? By plead (2.00 / 1)

oh, I see.  You are here for the entertainment value. Or is it to educate us boobs?

Cause if it's to edumacate us, it doesn't appear to be working.  You might need to use smaller words.  We ain't so smart ya know.

Do you want a "oh wow!  Suzieg!  You told us so!"  Okay then, oh wow, Suzieg!  You told us so!  Thank you for leading us all out of the darkness!  How can we ever thank you enough!

there.  Will you go away now?


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:34:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're welcome! (none / 0)


by suzieg on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 06:12:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Never been to a black church, have you? (none / 0)

(says the cat who's never been to a church service ever, mind). I lick my own paws, thank you very much!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Tipping point? (2.00 / 1)

I'd like to know what is everyone's tipping point.

A good segment may have FISA, another may have the Pro -choice issue and yet another may have separation of church and state.

But what are the majorities of democrats in here, tipping point?

What after he visits Iraq he calls the surge a success in any measure. What if Obama moves away from his 16 month all combat troops home firm policy to maybe I will reconsider that timeline or a timeline period?

Would you still be on board or will you throw a yellow flag on the field?


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? Against McCain? (2.00 / 3)

I'd say a dead girl.  (live boy?  okay.)

FYI -- the surge IS working in a military sense, just not in a political sense.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:34:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? Against McCain? (2.00 / 1)

Ha Ha True on both counts. Great diary I hope to hear more.


by Politicalslave on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 08:38:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 2)

He campaigned on 16 mos.; FISA fillibuster; protecting Roe vs. Wade; on and on and on.  Personally, I think the FISA fillibuster pledge was stupid (most Americans don't care) and we now see the ramifications of that campaign pledge.  The netroots is up in arms.  Heck, Open Left blog has proposed a "sit in" at Obama campaign offices to protest his "current" postion of FISA.
In any event, if he loses too many Dems, there aren't enough Repubs to get him the prize.
Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:35:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 1)

If the moderate independents and Republicans see the left wing attacking Obama they might think to themselves that he can't be all that bad.

I can hear them now. "Hmmm, maybe he's not the radical liberal Rush claimed."


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:44:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 2)

Interesting propostion.  A Dem prez candidate winning without Dems.  HMMM.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 1)

Not winning without Dems. Gaining more from moderate stances than he loses. Big difference. Do you think all candidates move more towards the middle for the GE is an accident or because they don't know what they are doing?


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:54:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (none / 0)

I think things were said during our recently concluded primry that were stupid.  We are now seeing the ramifications of that.  You can't say he sky is blue, get rewarded for saying so, and then say the sky is gray.  At least you can't when there are so many Dems still on the fence regarding Obama's candidacy. IMO, if he wins the Dems, he wins the Presidency.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 2)

You are using Democrats as if they all have the same stances on certain issues, which is too broad of a generalization.  They differ greatly on fiscal, social and foreign issues.  You can't "blanket" the whole Democratic party.

Some don't give give a shit about or FISA or just want the FISA court to be reinstated.  Some believe in faith-based programs on a local level in order to help the poor or minorities.  Some believe we need to be cautious in getting out of Iraq.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (none / 0)

Count me in as a thirty year Democrat who doesn't always line up with the Left on everything.  Cautious considered exit strategy, see the importance of a well-monitored faith-based program, choice early -- restrictions late, and I cry during the National Anthem.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 5)

"Running to the middle in an attempt to attract undecided swing voters didn't work for Al Gore in 2000. It didn't work for John Kerry in 2004. And it didn't work when Mark Penn (obsessed with his "microtrends" and missing the megatrend) convinced Hillary Clinton to do it in 2008.

Fixating on -- and pandering to -- this fickle crowd is all about messaging tailored to avoid offending rather than to inspire and galvanize. And isn't galvanizing the electorate to demand fundamental change the raison d'etre of the Obama campaign in the first place? This is how David Axelrod put it at the end of February, contrasting the tired Washington model of "I'll do these things for you" with Obama's "Let's do these things together":

"This has been the premise of Barack's politics all his life, going back to his days as a community organizer," Axelrod told me. "He has really lived and breathed it, which is why it comes across so authentically. Of course, the time also has to be right for the man and the moment to come together. And, after all the country has been through over the last seven years, the times are definitely right for the message that the only way to get real change is to activate the American people to demand it."


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:04:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 6)

See, that's my point.

I honestly don't see Obama as "pandering" and it makes me a little sick to hear (supposed) Democrats describe it as that.  
I don't see him as taking bland goosey "positions" so as not to offend.  I see him as taking some principled positions that just happen to be in the middle, at risk of alienating the Left.
 


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:13:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 6)

The same people complaining about Obama moving too far to the center are the same ones who were complaining during the primary that he was too liberal to get elected.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 1)

That's fair commentary.  Yet, he's our choice.  Earn our vote.  Plenty Dem votes to be had.  
BTW, he's going to win enough disgruntled Repub and Indie votes already.  The Dems, imo, are his ticket.  Get them to show up in November for him.
Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:49:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (2.00 / 1)

Why not just blame it on global warming like Ms. Sykes.

<


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 05:17:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And yet the Obama supporters (2.00 / 1)

demonized Hillary Clinton for being centrist, for reflecting the majority viewpoint.  I am confused.  What is it now?  Evil to be centrist or smart?  Evil to listen to the people and drift toward their views since you represent them or pandering?

Maybe Obama supporters could now explain....


by Jjc2008 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And yet the Obama supporters (none / 0)

This really is the puzzle.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 02:22:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tipping point? (none / 0)

Yep - Obama is Sister Souljah'ing (?) the Left....really funny...he stole that from a Clinton too.  

As Johnny Rotten so famously said "Did you ever feel like you'e been cheated?"


by emmasaint on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 04:54:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My tipping point came at the beginning of the (1.00 / 2)

primaries when he wouldn't fight for universal or mandated health care for adults - would not even consider it and then ran those republican style ads against Clinton a la Harry and Louise! I still cannot believe that the democratic nominee will not try for some kind of health care for adults? This is not a nominee who represent progressive/democratic values!

He's a cold fish, when he will not reconsider changing his stance, after hearing all these horror stories from voters but continue to lie about how he will give universal health care to every american. Every time I hear him or his surrogates spewing that shite, I'm so completely repulsed, that I could never, ever consider voting for him! He's more than reprehensible, he's repugnant in giving hope by tricking people to vote for him by promising them affordable health care! It's beyond contemptible!!!!


by suzieg on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 03:38:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

do you mind sharing then (none / 0)

who you will be voting for?


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:40:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nader if he can get on the ballot if not will (none / 0)

trade my vote as I did in 2000! I live in Texas so it makes no difference who I vote for.....


by suzieg on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 06:14:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I part of the nutty Left which freaked over FISA. (2.00 / 10)

However, after some reflection, I've decided Obama probably had little choice, as much as I loathe it. So you're probably right about all this. Kudos for keeping things in perspective.

Oh, and recommended.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:16:45 PM EST

well (2.00 / 9)

We had a centrist candidate, her name was hillary clinton.

The nutty left put Obama over the top.


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:27:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd say... (2.00 / 8)

...we had one primary candidate who wasn't a centrist. His name was Dennis Kucinich, he never got more than 3% of the vote (IIRC) and he endorsed Obama. If the "nutty left" (of which I am a member, if more pragmatic than my bloggy brethren and sistren) thought Obama was a progressive, they weren't paying attention.

The only thing I disagree with the diarist about is FISA. I really think Obama could have changed that debate.

(As to his comments on abortion: What he said was, to me, less an error on choice, than on mental health, which this country as a whole simply refuses to treat as illness rather than a matter of 'character'. Tipper Gore, call Elizabeth Edwards. Team up on that one.)


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:34:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd say... (2.00 / 3)

I agree, he could have changed the debate on FISA, but I'm going to give him he's got his hands a little full right now.  He may be the presumptive leader of the Party but he isn't the only powerful member of it.  Where was the Majority Leader?  Where were other powerful voices ready to step up and carry Obama's water on this one?  

Of all the Dems in the Senate, Obama is the only one (well, and Teddy) who I'd give the free pass on this.  A future Democratic Administration is resting on his back -- not so for his colleagues.  So maybe he could have exerted more pressure or leadership - well, in the middle of a hurricane he's not dancing like Nureyev, oh well. I knew all along the guy didn't walk on water.

As for the mental illness/distress debate -- there is such a thing as "mental distress" which is not at all the same as CLINICAL mental illness.  I would argue that clinical mental illness IS a medical condition, caused by chemical imbalances and bad wiring, and the Merck Manual would back me up on that.  

I take "mental distress" to mean a temporary condition that a person can be counselled through, without medical intervention.  Granted, I'm assuming alot there and Obama needs to clarify himself but still it's a little early to hang him on a fence for it and certainly not during an election run.   With his pro-choice record, it's splitting hairs at the expense of the rest of the agenda.  That leads me to think the people going ballistic over it are actually part of old Operation Chaos.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'd say... (2.00 / 1)

"I agree, he could have changed the debate on FISA..."
No, he cant change his "current" postition on FISA.  However, he should never have campaigned on his "former" position in the first place.  That's an issue that the netroots won't be able to resolve.
Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mental Distress Versus Clinical Illness (none / 0)

we don't have any fucking research here to prove or disprove your facts.

I'd love to be able to say to you... "Here is what portions of the brain the psych counseling affects" and "here is what portions of the brain the medicine affects".

Can't say it.

Can say that a simple hearing test (twenty minutes) can predict (somewhat) whether a person will do better under therapy than under medicine.

Oh, and exercise routinely outperforms all psych counseling.

So, citokate.

It is quite possible to have a mental illness that has flareups -- some people can be resilient to mental illness (I know someone with alcoholic tendencies, who copes by only having alcohol when happy).

By your definition, bipolar disorder (which quite a few people get through without medicine) isn't an illness.

I'm not sure where this thread came from, but I'm a geek and I used to work in a depression lab, so sorry!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:17:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The nutty left put Obama over the top. (2.00 / 4)

Yeah....those nutty lefties in KS, MS, SC, MO, ND, SD, ID, MT......


by Beren on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:47:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well (2.00 / 1)

Just in case it was missed. I was being sarcastic about the term 'nutty left' used to describe the dissenting group in this diary.


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:05:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well (2.00 / 3)

You beat me to it.

True.

Trouble is, now they have to live with the fruit of their labor, and some of them are doing backflips to downplay the discrepencies, and others (like kos) have unleashed their foaming at the mouth bitterness they ahd against Clinton on Obama.

Sheesh, folks, he's a politician.  He has to win the center.  If folks thougth anything different durng the primary, they were living in Oompa Loompa land.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well (2.00 / 1)

Is Oompa Loompa to the right of Change We Can Believe In?  (snark, no flaming, please)


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:17:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well (2.00 / 1)

Yes, when you consider 'change we can believe in' has come to mean nickels, dimes, quarters and half dollars plunked into the offering plates of your local religious group's community based 'outreach' program.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:26:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well (none / 0)

Or.... change his mind whenever the wind changes direction...


by Marjoriest on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL!!! (1.00 / 2)

I admit, that was funny.

Love the new sig Denny. I can't believe people still get mojo'd when they throw that at you.

DENNY IS NOT A REPUBLICAN OBAMA SUPPORTERS!

Mojo'd for a funny comment and a funnier sig.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL!!! (none / 0)

Back at 'cha.   :)


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:33:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BINGO!! (none / 0)


by suzieg on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 03:40:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just gotta say (2.00 / 7)

I respect the hell out of your opinions and have admired every one of your diaries and comments.  A class act of real integrity.

I get the part where the real progressives are struggling with this stuff and respect them for that.  I also like the idea of holding the man accountable for his changes in position.

Where I get all blathery is when someone writes "I'll still vote for him, but since he disappointed me on X, Y and Z it won't be with much enthusiasm, wah."

Hell's bells, I'm just so damn tickled pink to have a candidate who talks smart, acts smart and doesn't smell like yesterday's pudding I'm doing back flips over here.  And I used to be a real live "Clintonista".  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:16:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks! I remember, and (none / 0)

you've been a great voice for Hillary (and Obama) on this site. I recall the diary you wrote, "Obama: changing my mind, opening my eyes," after he gave his race speech, and it made an impression on me. That was back when I still sort of, well, despised him. Your diary helped.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

aw, shucks. (2.00 / 1)

that means alot.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the great dairy (2.00 / 2)

Change and hope means getting rid of old memes.

Call me crazy but I like the fact that Obama is shaking things up on both the left and the right.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 06:10:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 1)

On the matter of FISA - do you really believe that a majority of Americans, were they fully educated on FISA, would support that bill?  I find that very hard to believe.


by JustJennifer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:20:38 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 3)

yeah, well then, good luck educating them on it, especially in an election year.  

I don't claim to be an expert on it myself so correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought the big snag for folks was the immunity clause, which as I understand it is only immunity to civil, not criminal, liability.

so, if that's true, I'd venture a guess that the majority of Americans could be cowed into believing that anyone who fought the compromise was holding up "eavesdropping on terrorists" in order for a few people to extract a few million pounds of flesh from their cell phone provider.  

I'd be curious (again, I don't claim to know) what rationale was put out there by the rest of the Senate Democrats who supported the compromise.  Are they all full of crap, or just Obama?  And if so, why am I working for a Senate majority again?


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:05:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

If I were to guess. A majority of Americans, who even know what FISA is, are more concerned with getting FISA back in line with the 4th as this compromise bill does than punishing the Telecoms.

On the other hand I would guess most really don't know what FISA is, don't know it's been around since 1978. Also paid little attention to what Bush did to the original law. And sadder still probably were of a mind if we caught a few terrorist they didn't care that they might have their privacy violated. They were/are in a so what state of mind, I'm doing nothing wrong.

Also think they are a few screaming about this bill because they were under some misguided impression it was going to go away all together.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 1)

This is it. Difficult decisions have to be made and they won't please everyone sometimes even the candiate is not satisfied. The lack of support for our candidate on this site is unbelievable.
He is doing a great job considering just about everyone is attacking him even his supporters.
by Politicalslave on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 08:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

Well, it bothers me that steering the for least controversial position might be his rationale over FISA. As a former professor of constitutional law, he should know better.


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:31:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that is exact what I say - there is no excuse for (none / 0)

his 180 degree turn on FISA!


by suzieg on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 03:43:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually yes (none / 0)

the more I talk to people about it and the more they read about it, the more they have the "if you have nothing to hide, then what's the problem" attitude.

As for telecom immunity, I tend to get a "whatever gets this bill passed" attitude from people.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:01:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

Oh, goody.


by QTG on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:36:08 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 1)

I remember Kerry, after securing the nomination, going to a $25K/plate DLC fundraiser and reassuring them that he wasn't a "redistributionist Democrat." In other words, what he said during the primaries in order to beat Dean meant nothing.

Obama has done nothing like that and in fact ignored the DLC's recent meeting.

And the recent attacks against him for changing position or shifting to the are pure hogwash. Like it or not, Obama is being consistent with his past positions and statements.

Who Obama is and where he stands was all hashed out in the primaries and he prevailed in the nominating process of the Democratic Party.

Yes. It's time to get over it and support Obama -- or someone else.


by Beren on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:36:11 PM EST

Great Diary (2.00 / 2)

THANK YOU!


by minimei on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:39:31 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 6)

Blah, blah, blah.

All things Obama supporters pilloried Hillary for are now sancrosanct and brilliant strategy, and suddenly it's perfectly fine for a candidate to be like all politicians are to do whatever needs to win.

Y'all sure didn't sound like that during the primary. Back then, Obama was the chosen one who should be the nominee because he WASN'T like that!

My, how things DON'T CHANGE.


by Juno on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:49:33 PM EST

bullseet (2.00 / 6)

Sorry, but during the primary I was a rock solid Clinton supporter who understood her shifts to the center and defended them.

As a matter of fact, my biggest critique of Obama the politician during the primary race was that he WASN"T moving to the center quickly enough and was preaching too hard to his choir, risking alienation from the middle he needs to win.

Um.

So there.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:08:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullseet (2.00 / 2)

You missed the point of my post.

I too defended Clinton's campaign style. I knew she was doing what she had to to win over the voters Democrats had lost but needed to win.

It was Obama supporters who pilloried her for that.

I also defended her Iraq vote, although I vehemently disagreed with it. But I understood the context and the climate. I also blame BushCo for Iraq 100%.  Obama basically ran on his judgment in that one instant, an instant of which he was not even a part.

So my point is not purity in politics.  My point is that Obama supporters (and Obama) are suddenly singing a different tune.

I was one, btw, who was saying during the primary that I hoped that, if Obama became the nominee, he would "throw the kitchen sink at McCain to win."

I also defended the vote to continue funding the war, which Obama supported, when Democrats were gnashing their teeth at Pelosi and Reid, et al., BEFORE Obama was known.

Despite their bashing of Clinton over her vote, as soon as it became known that Obama had voted to continue funding, suddenly those same critics understood the context.

My point is the fluid nature of the Obama culture in that basically, if Obama does it, THAT makes it okay.

That's how it's been under Bush, and it's not a good way for this country to be.  IF the "enemy" does it, it's bad and wrong and Obama is above all that and doesn't do it, yadda, yadda, yadda. But if Obama turns around and does it, it's "what all politicians do."

I'm dizzy from it! IT also negates Obama's cred for me.  


by Juno on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:04:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullseet (2.00 / 5)

What exactly is "the Obama culture"...?  Curious...

Also, you basically have two "creds" to choose from in November.... Obama's or McCain's.  Personally, I think Obama could stop just short of advocating the slaughter of puppies and kittens and still have more credibility than McCain, but that's just because I know McCain's record pretty darn well.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:18:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullseet (none / 0)

Just because I think Obama is a bad choice does not mean I think McCain is the alternative.

It's not either/or for me. It should go without saying for this entire country that we cannot afford anymore Republicans in power for a long, long time.

But that does not mean Obama is a good choice.  IT means he's the only one.

Not a good way to pick a president, IMO.


by Juno on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:23:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullseet (2.00 / 2)

I say this honestly, without malice or glee.

I'm sorry you're not thrilled with our nominee.  I've been there.  It ain't fun.  I'm not gloating, and I'm not lording anything over you here.  Voting for Kerry was something to which I did not look forward.

But I've never regretted it either.  And I never will.

Am I personally happy with our nominee?  Absolutely.  He is demonstrating the pragmatism and temperment I thought I'd seen in him.  I hope it prospers.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Welcome to my world (none / 0)

Juno, this is the first time my candidate even won the primaries.

That didn't mean I didn't vote in the Genreal Election for the Democrat and am proud of it.

I supported Bradley in 2000, but had Gore bumper stickers. I supported Clark in 2004, but strongly supported my LEAST FAVORITE candidate in the primaries (outside of Lieberman), John Kerry.

If it were Clinton, I'd be here backing her and slamming those who criticize her unfairly and threaten to pull support from her.

And I'd have a "Hillary for President" sticker right under my Kerry one.

In the end, any Democrat would've been a fine choice IMO.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:15:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullseet (none / 0)

Oh, and I just described Obama culture.

If Obama says it or does it, it's good.  Obama is the criterion.


by Juno on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullseet (1.00 / 2)

Just like the Bushies?


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:25:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: bullseet (2.00 / 1)

Saying so gets your post banned in these liberal parts where we're all for diversity of opinion!


by Juno on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good enough (2.00 / 2)

I can respect this comment.

But here's how I see it -- we all got way to caught up in labels through the primary -- "Clintonistas do this" "Obamatons do that" as if supporters for either candidate were some sort of mega-organism, like a bee hive or something.

SOME Obama folks have and always will be fanatical apologists.  SOME Clinton supporters have and always will be pissy old farts.  The vast majority of either "side" were Democrats interested in seeing the person they could best trust to win get the nomination.  

I know how you feel in the sense that I've been riled up plenty by so much of the hostility, mindlessness boosterism and pointless trashing this primary season.  I hear what you're saying about not trusting the man because of the junk written by some of his supporters.  

I just don't think it's fair to the guy to judge him by the most vacuous of his supporters.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:25:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good enough (none / 0)

I judge HIM by his actions.

I think Obama is a pleaser, and I think that not only explains his style of having something for everyone (his race speech, for instance), but I think it's a very bad trait for a president and results in gridlock if not being steamrolled.

I could care less how his supporters behave except in the context of what it means in terms of Obama.  Obama RAN on being inspiring and bringing all this change and hope and a new tone and ending divisive, negative politics, yet his own supporters, from what I saw, actually degraded into often-times Republican-like vitriol and viciousness. (Just yesterday, one insisting on unity called me a smarmy jerk and jackass).

The reason I criticize is it because it necessarily negates Obama and is evidence that in fact Obama cannot influence or inspire change.  If he can't motivate his own supporters to a higher politic, and in fact he seems to motivate them to an even lower one (I had always gotten along with many of these bloggers, but when they became Obama supporters, I becamse the devil).

Obama was always my least favorite because I felt he was not ready for the job, had no business running yet, and was in it only as an ego reaction to the response to his 2004 speech.


by Juno on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 04:32:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hove you considered (2.00 / 4)

that these are not real Obama supporters making personal attacks but in most cases Republican trolls  trying to generate further divisiveness?

Have you considered that the traffic and energy created by the primary has pulled more than a few nutjobs out of the woodwork who get their jollies calling names on popular websites?

Have you considered that not everyone is going to immediately fall in line with what their candidate is really about but will learn over time? (if ever)

Myself, I work with a number of ardent Obama supporters who never once saw the need to personally attack me for my support of Clinton.  My real life experiences have been nothing like the crap on the blogs. And even there, when I boil it down, it turns out a small number of posters are name-calling idiots and the rest are respectful and decent even when they disagree.  

Even with that said, I'm not convinced that every five rotten posters don't amount to one bored Young Republican with four sock puppets.

I feel like I'm already seeing the effects of both "Hope" and "Change" on the street and even in the blogs.  We are talking about topics too long tabu.  We are rejecting Rovian smear tactics.  We aren't falling so easily for the old politics of fear.  And I'm seeing people who have never been involved in politics staying on top of it, questioning their assumptions and allegiance to the Republican Party, working for a candidate, donating for the first time. Seems like plenty of change to me.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 05:45:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

birds of a feather flock together.... (none / 0)


by suzieg on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 03:57:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: birds of a feather flock together.... (none / 0)

yeah.  that's what makes your hanging around here really fuckign weird.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:47:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ever hear of the ugly duckling? (none / 0)


by suzieg on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 06:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What I find (none / 0)

is that those Obama supporters who hated Clinton because of centrist attitude or pandering, are the ones who today are abandoning him on kos and other sites. They're the ones who are disappointed. They're the purists.

While the ones who supported Obama over Clinton for other reasons, and joined me in warning the aftermentioned supporters that Obama will also move to the center, are the ones who are saying he has to do what he needs to do to win.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 1)

Its hard to argue with that.


I'm for a timeline on Iraq, public funding of elections, women's reproductive rights, gun restrictions and universal suffrage. So why should I vote for Obama?
by William Cooper on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

No, Juno.

Our, or atleast, my rejection of Hillary was that vote she cast in 2003 and the remarkably negative campaign she ran against Obama.

Also, strategically speaking, Hillary inspires confidence amongst the base and revulsion amongst everyone else.

And please don't go there with me with "Obama attacked Hillary as well" for this is a fallacy.

Obama attacked the kind of campaign Hillary ran against him as being needlessly negative and defensive.  Such campaigns engender distrust in our officials and divisions amongst the American people.  Her approach is 'old politics' that doesn't lead to anything good and her failed Health Plan and candidacy is Exhibit A should you need proof.


by ChangeMatters on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

Juno he was chosen so yes he is the chosen one.


by Politicalslave on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 08:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 3)

Wowie! Love yor rant! :-D. Way to be rational and sensible, at the same time as letting it rip. Simply awesome.


"And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:49:37 PM EST

my favorite part (2.00 / 3)

 A reminder -- he's not LITERALLY throwing people under moving bus tires, FYI.  He's "distancing himself" from controversial and alienating commentary. No one dies, no one is hung in effigy, they only lose the approval of the candidate, oh my.

LMAO


by highgrade on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:57:17 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 2)

Nothing says "come join us and let's be united against McCain" like being told to get over yourself.  One of the things that is special about the Democratic party is we are supposed to be open minded people who are allowed to discuss our opinions freely.  If you want 100% lock step silence go join the Republicans.


by JustJennifer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:04:04 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 1)

If you want 100% lock step silence go join the Republicans.

You mean like the people on this site who are doing everything they can to disrupt discourse and to tear down Obama? Those Republicans?
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:09:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

Of course.  What I don't like is Democrats telling people to shut the hell up.  If this party is that weak then we are in real trouble.  


by JustJennifer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:18:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 3)

Most of the comments that people interpret as telling people to "shut up" are aimed at people who have shown that they only want to damage the Democratic party and to block their goals. Dissent is to be expected. I don't agree with Obama on everything. I don't agree with anyone on everything. Heck, I even have arguments with myself at times.

Dissenting and working to bring down the Democratic candidate are two very different things. Some people can't seem to tell the difference. Some people don't care. And, some people say they care, but really only care about their own feelings.

People that think this divisiveness please Hillary are delusional. They insult her and they insult everything she stands for.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:24:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

MS I bet you always win those arguments with yourself though.Ha Ha
 I don't mind questioning our candidate but there are more attacks on our candidate than McCain by a long shot. Jennifer are you saying while the Republicans are attacking our candidate we should join in?
by Politicalslave on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 08:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

damage the democratic party? It did that all (none / 0)

by itself - the May 31st negotiated behind closed doors, the night before, coup was the last straw for a lot of us and our dissent will not end until they allow a vote count on the Denver convention floor.


by suzieg on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 04:02:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey Jennifer.. (2.00 / 1)

it's just one person's opinion.  Say whatever you want, I don't have to like it!


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

Hey, well said. The Republickers are the Orwellian guys, not the Democrats. Democrats shouldn't be accusing each other of "ungoodthink" -- it's really ugly.


by SuGeAtARC on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 05:32:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 4)

Well done. Wished I'd written this diary. Be prepared to be flamed. This is pure troll bait.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:05:10 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (none / 0)

How True. Republicans fear this kind of diary.


by Politicalslave on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:04:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 3)

Guess what.  It's an election year and any road to the Whitehouse is paved with the carcasses of folks who said the wrong thing.

I love it. touche.


lemon716, mydd's little lemon drop;
by alyssa chaos on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:06:30 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (2.00 / 2)

I remember how Dashel and Gephart started out the new presidential term in 2001 offering olive branches to the Republicans and agreeing to compromise for the sake of the American people. For their efforts, which were naive, in my opinion, they and we were stabbed in the back. They moved further and further right through the next several years ending in a complete loss of the Senate and the House to the Repulicans.  We still have not recovered from that, even though we are in the majority now.  When democrats cannot be distinquished from Republicans on many issues, we lose and not just in votes.  I do not want to compromise with the GOP, we are still living with the compromises we had with them years ago. Only we have been down in Republicanland for so long it looks like up.  We have work to do untangling our compromises and moving away from their ideology, not toward it.


by Scotch on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:21:13 PM EST

Re: Oh, get over yourselves. (1.50 / 4)

You don't win elections on an ideologically pure far Left agenda, instead you tend to go down in flames.  Ask George McGovern.

Funny, I don't see the McGovern comparisons anymore from the McTools on this site. Leave it to Obama to confuse them to the point they rail against their own busted talking points.

Does Bawack have the wee widdle twolls confused?

<nelson> HA! HA! </nelson>


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:21:44